Then & Now: Age 21 vs Age 77

How does a person’s perspective of life change over decades? What does a person in his later years perceive that a 20-something doesn’t? To find out, we ask Dr. Bob Rich, the 77-year-old we interviewed just 2 weeks ago, to get a glimpse at how his perspective on the major matters of life has changed in the 50-odd years he’s been alive. 

Q: Hi Bob, can you describe yourself at age 21 and also yourself now. 

21: An intelligent, creative, physically attractive, athletically and academically high achiever. A Buddhist who didn’t know he was a Buddhist. And because of the lies of depression, he believed himself to be the opposite of all of these qualities.

Now: A Professional Grandfather. Every person born in 1993 or later qualifies as my grandchild, anywhere on Earth. I am on this planet to strive for a survivable future for all my millions of grandchildren, and one worth surviving in. The second is as important as the first. What’s the point of living in a world where a few billionaires accumulate ever more wealth so others can starve, where people hate and hurt each other for trivial differences, where our natural being of empathy and compassion is overridden by an insane culture?

Birth and Death, why do these exist?

Then: 

In the ancient days when I was 21, I was too miserable to worry about such issues. If I’d thought about it, I’d have felt sort of immortal: “Death? I suppose so, sometime. I wouldn’t mind not-living now.”

Since 5 years of age, I “knew” that I was ugly, and stupid, and no one could ever love me. My self-description was, “If there is a wrong way of doing something, or even if there isn’t, I’ll do it that way first.” This was a literally translated version (from Hungarian) of my stepfather’s opinion of me, though I didn’t realise this until I was about 20, and had a flashback to the occasion.

Now: 

I am a sceptic. I don’t believe anything, but use whatever information I have to construct a tentative model of reality. Over many years, this model has evolved into the theory:

The Universe is a living Person. I think of Her as a young, growing, sentient Flower of great beauty. The Universe is Life Energy. What we perceive, what we are parts of, is the universe of matter and energy that the Universe creates by observing it. Max Planck, one of the originators of quantum mechanics, said, “I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.”

Because She is growing, the Universe needs to develop the equivalent of brain cells. The material universe is a school for souls. All of us are apprentice Buddhas, whether we realise it or not. Our reason for being born is to go around, life after life after life, caterpillars feeding on the green leaves of experience, until we graduate. This is when we automatically, intuitively give unconditional love to every other living being. Because the English word “love” has so many meanings, I prefer the Buddhist term “metta.”

What happens after death?

Then:

I thought of life as an emergent quality. When I open my hand, where did the fist go? The fist is a spatial organisation of fingers: an emergent quality. A burning candle is wax + a wick + energy. When you blow it out, where does the flame go? You look at a beautiful building. That beauty, the very shape and functions of the building, cannot be predicted from the parts it is composed of.

So, I thought, make an organised collection of chemicals complex enough, and you have the emergent quality of life. Make a living being complex enough, and you have the emergent quality of consciousness.

Now:

There is scientifically very convincing evidence for reincarnation. I set it out in a chapter of my book, “From Depression to Contentment: A self-therapy guide” and because I consider it important, I’ve posted this chapter to my blog.

Also, many millions of people of all religious persuasions, and no religion at all, know it happens because of personal experiences. I am one of them. In 2007, I gained recall of 6 of my past lives. The story is in “Ascending Spiral: Humanity’s last chance” in fictionalised form. I had to make it fiction to protect the guilty, not that they’d gain much by suing me.

So, part of the model of reality I’ve mentioned is that after death, you face a superior Person. How this Person appears depends on your cultural background. For example, reports after clinical death experiences from Asian people don’t usually have a darkness with a bright light at the end of it, while most Europeans do.

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I once had a client who had died from pneumonia, but was brought back. She has an unshakeable memory of sitting on a log looking at a chattering creek, with her long-dead grandfather comfortingly sitting beside her.

This superior Person does not judge, but accepts you with perfect metta. However, you are guided to re-experience your just-ended life, for some reason from the death, gradually back to birth. Only, what you experience is your effect on other people. If today I do an act of kindness, I’ll experience the pleasure and gratitude of its recipient, and this is very powerful motivation for building on my strengths. If I do an act of cruelty, I’ll experience the pain I’ve caused, and this is even more powerful motivation to make restitution, and to set up Lessons to learn in the next life. The Guide and the deceased person then choose a life that will expose the spirit to the necessary situations to achieve these.

So, the Lessons are not reward or punishment, but freely chosen by the spirit. For example, one of the spirits who has been travelling with me was my cruel rapist of a husband two lives ago. He was there because I chose a life in which I needed such a person. He was a very young soul, and was incapable of love, empathy, any of the positive emotions. In my current life, I again had this person as part of my family. In this one, he still had no empathy, but instead of a rapist, he was a seducer. I deduce that one of his chosen lessons was to be able to give pleasure to women, instead of taking it from them. He is dead now, and hopefully will learn empathy in his next life.

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Why do bad things happen to us?

Then:

Again, at 21 I just knew that anything bad proved what an awful failure I was, in every way. When something good happened, which actually was often, it was luck, or due to the kindness of another person, or not that important anyway, or well, I never even noticed it. For example, at the half-yearly exams in first year university, I “only” got a Credit in chemistry, and this showed I was stupid. I simply accepted the High Distinctions and Distinctions in my other subjects without celebrating them in any way.

Now:

I have two dear friends, though I have only met them both through the internet.

One is Petrea King. You just have to read at least one of her wonderful, inspirational books. They might change your life—for the better. She was raped when she was 17. Possibly as part of the long-term consequence of the trauma, she developed cancer at 32. The bloody doctor told her she wouldn’t see the next Christmas. Devastated, angry, resentful, she went from Australia to Europe, and travelled around. Then she spent time in St. Francis of Assisi’s cave, and peace came to her. She is a little younger than I am, 76, and still going strong. She has been of benefit to tens of thousands of people experiencing life-threatening diseases like cancer, AIDS, MS, etc., and also people like teenagers suffering from environmental despair. I am sure she is an enlightened spirit, and need not return for another life.

The second friend is Rosemary. She is now 68, but has been forced to spend a great many years in a nursing home, among the elderly. She has been wheelchair-bound for a long time, and her health continues to deteriorate. All the same, she has joy in her life, because she can be of help to others. She hoons around in her wheelchair, running messages for less mobile people, reads to those who can’t anymore, helps the staff in whatever way she can. Sure, she has times of despair, but mostly, she lives a good life.

This is what suffering is for. It is a spur to spiritual growth. There is no need to change anything when things go well.

That suffering may be a Lesson situation you arranged before birth, or accident, or being caught in the crossfire of someone else’s actions. That doesn’t matter. Whatever, whyever, it is an opportunity to become a better person, to move closer to enlightenment.

Why do good things happen to us? 

Then:

Oh, good things happen to other people, because they deserve them. Me? I try and try and try, but know I’ll fail anyway.

Now:

About a third of my book on depression teaches you the tools of positive psychology, which bear a remarkable similarity to Buddhist actions.

When something bad happens, simply accept it. This, too, shall pass, and if it doesn’t, so what. It probably won’t kill me, and if it does, that’s all right too. When something good happens, celebrate it, enjoy it, but stay unattached. When it ends, as all things do, that’s fine.
Why? Things can be measured on many dimensions, “good-bad” being one of them. So, sometimes up, sometimes down, so what.

What is the point of marriage? 

Then:

Oh if only! Girls were a sweet torture, to be admired from a distance. I was a lost puppy looking for a home.

During first year at University, I set myself an extra subject: Girls 101. Once a week, I got brave enough to approach a stranger, and tried to make the conversation last 5 minutes. At night, I made records of what went well, what didn’t, and how I could try to do better next time. This resulted in over 30 “sisters,” but no lover. They were put off by my intensity. One told me, “If I let you get too close, I know I’ll have you for life, and I’m not ready for that, with anyone.”

But then, all of these sisters came to my wedding in 1967, glad to have me off their hands.

Now:

After nearly 53 years, I am still grateful to my wife for having rescued me from that.

All the same, to me, a marriage is not a piece of paper, or a contract, but a commitment. If two people are committed to each other, legally or informally, they are married. If they have the piece of paper but care nothing for each other, they are not. You may be interested in my summary of how to have great relationships, and how to have terrible ones.

What is the point of work? 

Then:

Everything I do in every waking moment is work. Studying, working as a tutor or in a summer job, running (both training and competition), environmental activism, helping to run a scout troop, having people cry on my shoulder, studying Girls 101… everything is a duty, everything is competition, not against others but against myself.

Now:

Life is too short for the seriousness it deserves. Some activities are for money. Some activities are not. It makes no difference. Often, money costs far more than it is worth. Some activities are interesting, some are boring. I’ll gladly do a boring one if in that way I can be of benefit to someone. For example, I do editing (for money), and the stuff sent to me may be TERRIBLE. But, after my feedback, not only does the client have the opportunity to improve that piece of writing, but also to improve in general writing skills. So, it’s worthwhile.

When I review a book, I do much the same thing, only I don’t get paid for it. Doesn’t matter: I still do my best to be of benefit to the author. If I need to make many suggestions for improvement, I go to considerable trouble to track the author down so I can be of service.

Can you organise these aspects of life—Purpose, Status, Money, Knowledge, Health, Peace, Love, Friendships—in order of importance, starting with the most important.  

Then:

I was too busy being properly miserable to worry about such issues. I dreamed of Success, not because I wanted status or money or fame, but because every instant I needed to prove that I was not a no-hoper, only to need to prove it again in the next instant.

I was of benefit to many people, and there were wonderful people in my life I think of as my angels who taught me how to climb out of my hell, but I didn’t even know I had friends. Who would be MY friend? Come on!

I dreamed of love, but it was a yearning for the impossible.

Now:

The most important is not on your list. This is to be of service. I get joy from making life better for someone, like fishing an insect out of a puddle, or taking an old woman to her doctor’s appointment although I hate the way she behaves, or answering an emailed cry of despair and leading the other person to a good life.

I do value knowledge. I am an endless sponge for it. A friend once described me as a walking encyclopaedia. Love is something I have given all my life. Over the past decade or so, I have gradually also learned to accept it. Health is great. Getting old is not for the fainthearted. But then, if you stayed a vibrant 21, there would be no acceptance of death, and the planet is overpopulated enough as it is. Besides, spiritual growth is only possible by assessing a life, then setting up new Lessons, so death is necessary. The aches and pains and gradual organ failures are needed to make the thought of death acceptable to most people.

Wealth, status, fame… all the Monopoly tokens of our insane culture, don’t turn me on at all. My wife and I have deliberately lived below the poverty line since 1978. If you want to understand why, read “How to change the world”.

Who should we turn to when we’re in trouble?

Then:

No one. If I can’t handle it myself, I prove to be hopeless and useless. Grit teeth and charge at the problem.

Now:

I used to be one of the physically strongest people in my acquaintance, and also had fairly formidable unarmed combat skills. All gone now, and I often need physical help. I accept it with gratitude, because I know that the more you give, the more you grow, so I am making the gift of the opportunity to be helpful to my benefactor.

When I lack skills or knowledge, I know that “If someone else can do it, I can learn it.” So, I seek out an expert or three, and welcome being taught.

Is homosexuality okay? What about abortion, pre-marital sex, having a baby outside of marriage, divorce, polygamy and alcohol?

Then:

I have always rejected alcohol, tobacco, marijuana, every other drug (except for chocolate, which is my favourite vegetable). This is because I did my drunkenness in a previous life, when it killed me. Having learned that Lesson, I am now free from it.

Abortion is better than an unloved, deprived, abused life. Pre-marital sex? I wish… sex of any kind! But if a girl had allowed me that close, that would have been marriage, ceremony or not. But all this was unthinking. I didn’t give any such issues explicit consideration.

Now:

Above all, do no harm. If you can, do good. If you can’t do good, change the situation until you can. I have applied this to homosexuality. You can apply it to any other issue. On my relationships page, I explain that there are 4 possible outcomes: together happy, together unhappy, separately happy, separately unhappy. What matters is that this situation should result in growth, increased wisdom, learning better ways of doing things.

Polygamy, polyandry, polyamory are all in principle OK, if there is mutual love and commitment. If someone is forced into a multiple relationship, if there is jealousy and resentment, then it is not OK.

What makes a person a ‘good’ person? What makes a person a ‘bad’ person? 

Then:

I was as yet unable to separate a person from the action. I judged people by the effects of what they did. I hated bullies, having been on the receiving end all too often.

Now:

There is no such thing as a bad person. Some are spiritually immature, and know not what they do, yet. I often disapprove of what people do, but my motivation is, if I can, I want to lead them to growth.

Is there a powerful being somewhere up there looking out for us and pre-designing our lives for us? 

Then:

No. If there was, then why is there so much suffering? If there was a God, and allowed the crap to happen, I’d spit in His face for it.

Now:

We go back to quantum mechanics. Time exists in the material universe, so all that was, and all that is, and all that will be is “written down in the Book of Life.”

But there is no Puppet Master in the Sky. There is choice, and free will, because if there wasn’t, we would not be able to grow, and that’s the purpose of life.

Here is an analogy. You have a favourite book, which you are now reading for the fifth time. You know how the story will end. But the hero in chapter 2 doesn’t, and is agonising over a choice. You enjoy reading because you identify with this hero. If it was “Oh, just a story,” there would be no point in reading it again. So, you are IN THERE, in the story, and facing the terrible choice, even though if you take a breath and move back into your own life, you know the outcome.

Bob is presently doing his best to live every moment as if he were to live forever, while also living every moment as if it were his last. He is presently looking for beta readers for his latest science fiction series, “The Doom Healer” (“In my unbiased opinion, it has the potential to join Harry Potter.”), so if you’re interested in being his beta reader, you can contact him via his website, Bobbing Around. You may also chat with him using the comment box below (“Delighted to chat with anyone. People posting comments will be rewarded with a big blast of metta.”). 

Other interviews with Dr. Bob Rich:
What It’s Like Being Older Than 70
How I Wrote And Published 18 Books

Photographs courtesy and copyright of Dr Bob Rich. Interviewer: Sy
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